Do you train to failure?

6to7to8 · 02-06-2010, 04:52 AM

Or do you stop short of it, and by how many repz?

Al · 02-06-2010, 12:45 PM

Every set after warmup is to failure for me. I like the 3-8 rep range but go a little higher on stupid muscles like arms.

Pureiron · 02-06-2010, 01:32 PM

I train to succeed

Al · 02-06-2010, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pureiron

I train to succeed

lmao!

ChicagoCubz · 02-06-2010, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al

Every set after warmup is to failure for me. I like the 3-8 rep range but go a little higher on stupid muscles like arms.

You just angered 80% of BB.com with that comment.

Mr. X · 02-06-2010, 03:27 PM

Did it a lot before powerlifting. I do it now too that I'm cutting kind of like Al, but probably less reps. Now I usually just hit the last set to failure.

Al · 02-06-2010, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChicagoCubz

You just angered 80% of BB.com with that comment.

You're right. Arms are everything at bb.com. Arms are small and there's really no mystery in how to train them. Getting up a 405 bench or a 585 deadlift, that's a bit different.

Mr. X · 02-06-2010, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al

You're right. Arms are everything at bb.com. Arms are small and there's really no mystery in how to train them. Getting up a 405 bench or a 585 deadlift, that's a bit different.

I think he meant the fact that they'll give you shit for not training 5x5 or Rippetoe's where you don't go to failure.

Al · 02-06-2010, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. X

I think he meant the fact that they'll give you shit for not training 5x5 or Rippetoe's where you don't go to failure.

Oh, that too. I know training to failure is bad for me. It's the only thing that keeps me going back to the gym. I like the challenge and desperation that goes along with it.

Triple B · 02-06-2010, 07:19 PM

I fail to train. Is that the same thing?

Al · 02-06-2010, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple B

I fail to train. Is that the same thing?

yes, it's the same.

Al · 02-06-2010, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6to7to8

Or do you stop short of it, and by how many repz?

I realized that my first response was not exactly true. All my working sets are to failure. If I'm attempting to get an extra rep at a higher poundage, I might shave off a couple reps from the preceding set. So, I guess I don't actually do every non-warmup set to failure.

I'm a dirty liar, it seems.

Takuan · 02-07-2010, 02:18 PM

It depends what you're training for, but a general rule of thumb is to watch what size muscle group you're working:

Big muscle group (compound movements): To failure once or twice per workout
Single muscle group like biceps, triceps, quads: To failure once or twice per exercise
Calves: Every set, if you burn your CNS on calves, bravo.

If you go to absolute failure on bench on your second set, you won't be doing as much weight for the third and on sets as you could be doing if you came just short for the second. The more failure sets you reach, the longer your recovery will take.

Then again, programs that are built around drop sets and forced reps are the exception to these guidelines. But in general, people can't handle more than 6-8 weeks before getting burnt out training consistently with drop sets and forced reps for everything.

p.s. if someone says "I use forced reps all day every day every set for the last year and I'm not tired!!1!" that's great, chances are you aren't making as good of progress as you should, and you train with the intensity of a soggy banana.

Al · 02-07-2010, 02:24 PM

Dropsets = drop bodyweight for me. I totally agree that the recovery after reverse pyramids, assisted reps, and drop sets is much longer. For me, it's a setup for injury. I'll do a finishing set or three of Westside Barbell/Dynamik pullover dumbell presses on chest day. It adds a day to my recovery time. No shit.

If anyone knows the proper name of the exercise that I'm describing above, please let me know.

BulkHogan · 02-07-2010, 11:30 PM

i dont bc i cant find good spotters at my gym, plus i workout after workign and late at night so im usually exhausted

Al · 02-08-2010, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BulkHogan

i dont bc i cant find good spotters at my gym, plus i workout after workign and late at night so im usually exhausted

I hear you, Bulk. On heavy sets, I'll get my GF off the treadmill to spot me. I don't trust any of the worthless fuckers in my gym.

mightakefishoil · 02-08-2010, 06:40 AM

I don't know how not to. I don't see how you can lift hard and heavy while simultaneously being in a state of mind where, mid-set, you can reflect and conclude "that feels like 80 percent of my threshold. Perfect."

Takuan · 02-08-2010, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mightakefishoil

I don't know how not to. I don't see how you can lift hard and heavy while simultaneously being in a state of mind where, mid-set, you can reflect and conclude "that feels like 80 percent of my threshold. Perfect."

You know when you're going for a heavy set and you're cranking through the first 3 or 4 and the bar starts slowing down, and after a few more, the bar damn nears stops on a rep, and your head feels like it's gonna fuckin explode and you might die? Stopping there is before failure.

6to7to8 · 02-08-2010, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takuan

Big muscle group (compound movements): To failure once or twice per workout
Single muscle group like biceps, triceps, quads: To failure once or twice per exercise
Calves: Every set, if you burn your CNS on calves, bravo.

Sounds reasonable, but what's this based on? Like, do you have any evidence you can show me?

Takuan · 02-08-2010, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6to7to8

Sounds reasonable, but what's this based on? Like, do you have any evidence you can show me?

Yeah, let me pull up the article, and I know there's been a journal or two about CNS/ATPase recovery times relating to % intensity

02-06-2010, 04:52 AM	#1 (permalink)
6to7to8 6to7to8 is A Retired Mod ‎‎‎‎‎‎‎ Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 2,283 12045 :	Do you train to failure? Or do you stop short of it, and by how many repz? __________________ People I hate: Duffman Calc STRONGMAN bulld0g

02-06-2010, 12:45 PM	#2 (permalink)
Al Al is Eggshell white with Romalian Type Moderator Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 5,834 92551 :	Every set after warmup is to failure for me. I like the 3-8 rep range but go a little higher on stupid muscles like arms. __________________ "you dirty liberals" -SuperChrist "...at least have the decency to pretend to care in an argument, you fucking savage" -FishOil

02-06-2010, 01:32 PM	#3 (permalink)
Pureiron Pureiron is ballin' troll style Senior Member Tournaments Won: 2 Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 6,408 36551 :	I train to succeed __________________ Workout Journal http://www.allthemisc.com/workout-jo...ng-badass.html The Program http://www.allthemisc.com/435475-post256.html

02-06-2010, 03:27 PM	#6 (permalink)
Mr. X Mr. X is The Beefcake Soulreaper Money Strip Champion! Winter Bells Champion! Festival Of History : Archery Champion! Against War Champion! Bow Hunter Champion! X-Training Champion! Balloon Shoot Champion! Resident Evil Apocalypse Champion! Assassination Simulator Champion! Autobahn Champion! Yeti Sports 8- Jungle Swing Champion! Algar Champion! Excite Bike Champion! Art Thief Champion! 3D Superball Champion! Drunk Driver Championship Champion! QB Challenge Champion! Click Santa Champion! aim and fire Champion! Counter-Strike Champion! Call of Duty 2 Champion! 2 Many Bugs Champion! BRA Blaster Champion! Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 23,321 149922 :	Did it a lot before powerlifting. I do it now too that I'm cutting kind of like Al, but probably less reps. Now I usually just hit the last set to failure. __________________ Inception of a Grand Crusade (my workout journal) ISSA Certified Fitness Trainer Current Stats: Body Weight: 205lbs Deadlift: 535lbs Power Squat: 462.5lbs CoC #2.5x2 HG300x5 Hub Lift: 45lbs x 2 Rolling Thunder: 150lbs One Arm Barbell Snatch: 125x1 Dumbbell Clean and Jerk 125x4 NGMF 9thG8 Syndicate

02-07-2010, 02:18 PM	#13 (permalink)
Takuan Takuan is 207.0 Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 2,357 18190 :	It depends what you're training for, but a general rule of thumb is to watch what size muscle group you're working: Big muscle group (compound movements): To failure once or twice per workout Single muscle group like biceps, triceps, quads: To failure once or twice per exercise Calves: Every set, if you burn your CNS on calves, bravo. If you go to absolute failure on bench on your second set, you won't be doing as much weight for the third and on sets as you could be doing if you came just short for the second. The more failure sets you reach, the longer your recovery will take. Then again, programs that are built around drop sets and forced reps are the exception to these guidelines. But in general, people can't handle more than 6-8 weeks before getting burnt out training consistently with drop sets and forced reps for everything. p.s. if someone says "I use forced reps all day every day every set for the last year and I'm not tired!!1!" that's great, chances are you aren't making as good of progress as you should, and you train with the intensity of a soggy banana. __________________ NGMF

02-07-2010, 02:24 PM	#14 (permalink)
Al Al is Eggshell white with Romalian Type Moderator Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 5,834 92551 :	Dropsets = drop bodyweight for me. I totally agree that the recovery after reverse pyramids, assisted reps, and drop sets is much longer. For me, it's a setup for injury. I'll do a finishing set or three of Westside Barbell/Dynamik pullover dumbell presses on chest day. It adds a day to my recovery time. No shit. If anyone knows the proper name of the exercise that I'm describing above, please let me know. __________________ "you dirty liberals" -SuperChrist "...at least have the decency to pretend to care in an argument, you fucking savage" -FishOil

02-07-2010, 11:30 PM	#15 (permalink)
BulkHogan BulkHogan fucks for pie Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 12 148 :	i dont bc i cant find good spotters at my gym, plus i workout after workign and late at night so im usually exhausted

02-08-2010, 06:40 AM	#17 (permalink)
mightakefishoil mightakefishoil fucks for pie Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 990 9431 :	I don't know how not to. I don't see how you can lift hard and heavy while simultaneously being in a state of mind where, mid-set, you can reflect and conclude "that feels like 80 percent of my threshold. Perfect." __________________ "O das' good money. Good money." Big Cliff's moral supporter

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